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Originally posted June 5th, 2010 by Mystra on the UO Stratics Great Lakes board:

Tennative: Saturday, July 10th?
Location: Empathy Abbey, Yew
Time: 1p.m. EST (12 p.m. Central) to 4 p.m. EST(3 p.m. Central)? Etimates based on previous years 3 to 5 hour event.

The EM's Mesanna and Elizabella have responded and stated they would assist with a game wide open to everyone event..

Right Now FCB is looking to host with MOA and whomever else would like to help us get this going.

As you know we have done this event every year and it is usually lots of fun. The point of the whole thing is to get players to meet the respective guilds and their members. You can look for a new guild, chat with an ally or enemy or maybe just hang out and have some fun. Anything that gets the shard together at one time works for me.

Please let us know if you wish your guild to have a booth and or help us get this thing setup and rolling.

Thanks and hope to see you there !!!

Mystra

I'd like the community to have as large a presence as possible for this event.

All the differnt guilds, good and evil, should come up with a blurb outlining their RP position and recruitment policies.

We should start preparations soon so we can present as polished a presentation as possible, and drum up renewed interest from those who like RP but don't know where to start.

We have a little more then a month...

I'm all for this, and will definitely make sure that CAD has a presence there; I'll probably end up dual clienting so that I can be there to support the HC too. Yes, the HC is not a "guild" per se, but I think it's a good idea to have a solid RP presence there too that potential RP guilds might take an interest in without having to join an existing RPC guild.

A separate note, I think it's time we start discussing the big pink elephant in the room: Factions. I'll be honest, I think it's detrimental to the RPC to be involved in them directly on the RP front. There are negative connotations to it that affect us in Trammel (random inability to be ressed or healed due to faction involvement; random application of statloss) as well as being a turn-off to joining the Alliance who view Factions as nothing more than mindless PvP (which, frankly, it sort of is right now because of the state EA/Mythic has left it in -- with no solid future in sight for it). With Lore departing the last true roleplay reason for remaining in Factions also departs.

I understand there are a few folks who do participate in Factions for the PvP aspect of it, and I'm not certain how we go about addressing that specifically, but I think we need to open a dialog on this.

Deleted...No point.

What I think you're talking about is how, in Felucca, you can't be rezzed or healed by anyone who isn't in your Faction (and even then, it has to be an alliance member if you're aggressor-flagged).

However, this was removed from Trammel some years back.

If this is still happening to you, you are bugged in some way and should page a GM.

Actually, this still occurs in Trammel randomly because there is a bug in the Factions system. I've heard neptune say in chat on EM nights several times that he can't res someone because of us being in factions.

It's not random, it occurs when you die to a Faction enemy in Trammel. The 20-minute skill-loss timer coincides roughly with the 15-minute timer when you can't fight in RP fights.

It is random when it doesn't happen with specific rhyme or reason. When it happens during EM events (my killing myself once not inclusive), it's not convenient to sit out the stat-loss timer, and the RP timer certainly doesn't apply.

Go to the Luna Bank, look around at all the people wearing Faction Artifacts, then go to Felucca. You'll see roughly half of them in Felucca. That other half is in Felucca long enough to purchase the level 1 Faction Artifacts, which can't ever fall off due to rank, and are never seen again.

I mention this for one reason: Enough people join Factions solely for the items that it's hard to argue it's maintained its PvP stigma.

Joining factions just for the artifacts is precisely what I was told we weren't doing before the decision was made to do this in the first place. However, given that there's been zero faction roleplay to come since we joined factions, I have to be pretty blunt and say I believe that's exactly why we joined. The associated stigma may not be there for average players, but I suspect you'd find differently from potential roleplayers.

Since we've joined Factions we've seen a few new and returning players. Joining Factions hasn't been an obstacle for them, perhaps in part because joining Factions involves being in Felucca for under a minute, and then there's neither need nor requirement to ever be in Felucca or participate in a Faction fight again. (Unless, of course, you count as Faction fighting oranges in Trammel as Faction fighting when those oranges happen to also be in Factions.)

People who are already used to being part of a particular guild generally won't argue the condition, but I don't think we've seen many "new" folk joining the RP community. I also see us interact with several folk who do seem turned off joining because of the factions situation -- perhaps my perception, but again, just voicing what I see.

Frankly, being perma-warred, as we are, is a much more significant obstacle to people who have no interest in PvP than being in Factions ever could be.

Honestly, there is a far greater stigma -- IMO -- to stepping through a red moongate for one minute than there is being warred in a situation where you know your GM has your back.

I find this statement remarkable.

There are many RP reasons Galen the character would want to be in Factions. Helping out his mistress and her family is one, revenge on the Shadowlords Faction for their role in the War of Shadows is another, having qualms about the way Lord British and Nystul just walked away from Felucca is another.

Either you were unaware of all these, or you don't consider them "true" roleplay reasons. And if that's the case there's little I can say to that other than that they are "true" enough to me, if that counts for anything.

I think I've seen Lore once in-game since we joined Factions. Maybe twice, but one time might have been before.

I'm uncertain why you find it remarkable. There may be several in character reasons that Galen would want to be in Factions, but how many roleplay opportunities have you as a player taken advantage of, how many roleplay situations have arisen from Factions, and how many roleplay plot or subplots have you become involved with or presented that involve Factions?

I understand that there are valid in-character reasons to participate, but the whole way Factions was presented to the roleplay community as a whole was for roleplay opportunities that first and foremost stemmed from Lore Denin and the True Britannians being involved in Factions, and the hope to bring Whispering Winds back into the fold.

This discussion is not meant as an affront to anyone, nor do I mean to offend anyone, but the point is plain and simple: zero roleplay has sprung from our involvement in factions, at least on a public face. If private roleplay's been happening, then I'm unaware of it.

There are of course those of us who participate in Factions for the RP aspect of it. See above.

It is, at the very least, something to do on occasion, which has scarcely any negative impact on play outside of Felucca.

Factions is, at heart, an RP system. Apart from buying war horses, ownership of the cities means little outside of RP.

My own attachment to Factions is at once significant (in that I as a player like having something different to do, and that Galen as a character has "true" RP reasons to participate) and slight (in that I will never, ever, ever be a hard-core Factioner, and Galen will never spend too much time fighting over a dead world).

*shrugs*

Well, I disagree that significant RP has come from our involvement in Factions, and the times I've been hit by faction inconveniences have been far from scarce. Factions itself is far from an RP system in and of itself, and to describe it as such is curious, given that it was designed to give PvPers a reason to PvP. Sure, again, there may be roleplay opportunities that exist, but I've seen no one take advantage of them from the context of meaningful, in-character roleplay interaction.

Sure... it's the occasional "something to do," but again, I believe the negatives outweigh the positives -- and since most of the positives have not been taken advantage of, I'm not sure what that leaves us besides a contextual backdrop and some faction items that, frankly, are likely to go away if and when Mythic "fixes" the faction system.

Let me ask this: Were it not for the artifacts, how many people involved "actively" in Factions today would be so without them?

Deleted...No point.

Obviously I was present when discussion about joining factions was presented, and again, the whole artifact issue was downplayed. What was played up was the number of roleplay opportunities that would present themselves to the community, not the least of which was hoping to get Lore Denin and Whispering Winds back into the RP community because it would be difficult to do so without joining factions. I'm not casting this as some sort of revelation, I'm casting it as the only thing I've actually seen come out of factions and into the community are the artifacts.

Unless I've missed something here, the oranges we fight are not themselves in factions, are they? If they are, I guess that's all fine and good, but that wasn't the impression that I had. As for the number of imports we've had, sure, we've had some people come back and 1 to 2 new people -- but why are people such as the Night Wolves of Justice not involved in the Alliance? I readily agree that a perma-war situation can be a deterrent as well, but I've heard a much larger issue about having to join factions than I have about having to join a warred RP interaction.

I understand that there's a stigma against Felucca -- there's also a stigma against PvP, but one that the RP community works together to ensure that nothing bad happens to the participants. All of this building up the difference between factions and PvP and Felucca is an illusory defense though. The point remains that being part of factions has not brought anything to the community that I've seen or heard of.

Roleplaying is a combination of character interaction, character choice, plot, subplot, and so forth. I'm not quite sure why you're nitpicking one area over another, nor why you are "floored," "depressed," or otherwise in a state of shock over an opinion about factions. Regardless of how we roleplay our characters, we are also governed by the rules of the game; those rules are having negative consequences that -- in my opinion -- outweigh the minimal positives that have come from direct involvement in that rulesystem.

I think you're misunderstanding my opinion on the rulesystem as something more than it is. I have not accused anyone of failing to roleplay, nor have I said that you or anyone else is either in or out of character for participation within the system. What I am saying is that the reasons that were presented for joining the system have not come to fruition; that artifacts were downplayed as a minor advantage; that there are bugs in the system that have adverse affects on characters outside of the intended scope of the system.

If, among the issues we're dealing with in bugs in the system, is that if another factioneer shows up at an event and we get attacked or killed by them (not sure how that would happen outside of someone being orange to us) we really can't control that -- and how far is it going to go to solve the problem by simply saying, "Kill all oranges at public events?"

I opened this discussion because I perceive it as a problem. You seem to be taking rules and system issues and see me as painting you personally as a lousy roleplayer or some such thing -- I'm not sure what precisely, but you sure are taking this personally.

I'm certainly not the only person who has voiced issue with being in factions, but I suppose I may be the only one to put it in writing. If that's the case, so be it. I don't mind starting discussions, and I'm certainly not saying "If we don't drop from factions, I'm leaving the community." I started a discussion, Galen -- I appreciate the passion you're putting into it, but could you do so without so many wide swathing coats of how I'm a narrow-minded, prominent member of the community. I have always put community first, Galen, and I will continue to do so. I opened a discussion, not a moratorium.

In the end, the discussion about factions has already been progressing through the voices of many people, partly because of plans that may or may not come to fruition because of Mythic's planned/unplanned/designed/undesigned changes. We're talking about recruiting people into the community at this upcoming event, and I thought it was an appropriate time to revisit the topic. If the end of this discussion is, "We're mostly fine with the situation as it is," that's fine with me. I'm a group player, and I will roll with what the group decides. If you feel I'm narrow-minded for bringing this up, then I apologize for the affront, but I stand behind it being an appropriate time to revisit the decision.

Before anyone breaks out their swords and spellbooks, let's remember we're all on the same side here.

Ra has a valid point saying that there have been issues with the mechanics of factions while in Trammel. They don't happen 100% of the time, but as a possibility need to be considered. ToM was in factions, I believe, briefly a few months back... as have the other oranges - hence we found out that death to an opposing faction in Trammel STILL carries stat loss. Way to go Mythic.

There were hopes of RP coming from factions, the brief inclusion of the SL faction to kill Clainin and their orders to kill the Platinum dragons. Sadly, Mythic doesn't know how to mix Factions into their story arcs believably or in any truly meaningful manner. This is something we have no control over.

I know the B.A.F. has participated in several Castle defenses in protection of the sigils… While that may not have any impact on our play in Trammel, it can conceivably be seen as their defending the Virtues which Lord British stood for. As far as Lore is concerned, I had hoped for more interaction – However, we can’t control when or how someone plays UO, or even which shard.

Oranges at EM events is an issue which has caused problems from a mechanics aspect, but they were minor. While it may not make sense for a ToM member to actively participate in the exploits of the Spies or the Guard, we can’t really start dictating how someone spends their leisure time. It would be nice if the evildoers had a blue they could use to participate in events where the GLRPC’s interests were of secondary importance (EM events and the like), that way they could also participate without the constant antagonization and friction.

Malag’s wedding was a prime example of a time not to bring an orange. Logically, the B.A.F. should have kicked them out for even showing up since the Temple are EoS. However, since they don’t have blues, and this was such a large event, we ignored it for the good of the community OOC. Did it make IC sense? No. Did it allow community friends to participate in the event? Yes. Is this still an issue that needs worked on? Yes.

Oh, NWJ is not part of the alliance for two reasons.. First, they are already in an alliance. Second, not many of them actively RP. Neither of which I will fault them for, and they are welcome to participate however they want to, or can. However, faction status is not one of the reasons since they are also in the True Britannians.

In conclusion, long in coming, I know… While yes, factions have thrown us a few curve balls, enhanced artifacts are plentiful, Mythic is someday going to ruin them, and little direct RP has come out of being in it, I haven’t seen anyone run screaming from the idea of joining because of it. However, Ra IS correct in raising the point that there is a possibility someone may.

Are enhanced artifacts worth losing potential new friends over?

To Galen, I am sorry you deleted your posts. They were well written and reflect my personal views of role-play, I am only sorry I was to busy to comment on them before now.

It sounds like role-play is your main objective. You would play Galen through the eyes of that character regardless of the mechanics EA implements, even if the changes would make your game play suffer. So if statloss was extended to a month, making Galen weak and unable to hunt and otherwise participate in an "active" manner, it sounds to me you would suffer those consequences if your character believed that defending the citizens of Felucca from evil in the name of Virtue, Queen Dawn, and Britannia was a worthy cause. If that is the case, I admire that you would risk suffering those in game consequences for the purity of your rp (I would as well) but I learned long ago to give up those expectations of all role-players. People have different views and play styles, what they value in rp. You and Ra having different opinions doesn't invalidate his or your style, it simply demonstrates there are differences.

Galen you would have been one of the few that could handle Order rp where you could be attacked on all facets, events, hunts, spawns, banks by non rpers while having to remain IC at all times and follow the rp rules of engagement for rp and non rp enemies alike (After all how could I justify asking for the departure or surrender from a scum bag enemy of state while attacking a member of a Legitimate Britannian Knighthood , The Chaos Guard, which Lord British granted Lord Blackthorn full legal authority to create and legally oppose Order.

I think on the other extreme people sacrificing in game role-play to avoid a 20 min stat timer from a bug that may or may not occur randomly and rarely (I have never seen this unless you did actually kill yourself which does put you into statloss) when fighting spawn at an event, might on the other hand be valuing game play a little to highly at the cost of role-play.

I am sure the community will find a middle ground that can incorporate faction rp, pvm rp, event rp, without having to make anyone sacrifice one aspect of play

-Lore's Player

PS: I am disappointed that I was unable to participate in factions and in particular with the RP community over the last few months - DEC – May. Long story short, my mother sold her house and lived with me while she looked to buy a home in my area. Was supposed to be a few weeks, ended up taking 5 months. Additionally, my wife and I moved to PST time zone three years ago; combine that with school, work and married life and it left me unable to log on before 2:00am Est. most nights. When I came back in May, and realized that my situation was not going to change and if I wanted to play with anyone other then myself and a few people defending and attacking for the sigils in the wee hours, then I was going to have to make a change.

I won’t ever do something IC because of OC issues though so it wasn’t until I read some of the new faction change proposals that I had some IC inspired fiction that would make such a move legitimate and desirable for my character.

GL has been my home since the beginning and it is really hard for me to say goodbye. Few in the rp community even know me anymore or I simply don’t know them by who they are today . [I do not do much OC consultation, and my character will see you if his role takes him into your path which is primarily one of war and defense in felucca. I am against using vent in an rp setting which further isolates me from the community, though I am working on a way to resolve that by making vent on Origin IC, modified communication crystals that characters have possess to be in vent]. I will miss you all more so will miss getting to know so many of the newer faces I haven’t really had a chance to interact. However that inability to make that connection and the realization that based on my geographic location and life schedule that such a connection would likely never happen, I am forced to move to meet some of those OC rp needs, the aspect of gaming I love most and I have IC support to legitimize my move from my characters perspective.

If anyone thought that I was disappointed or angry with the rp community in some way or had dropped out of rp that is completely untrue. [I often get random icq’s, “Lore did you leave rp for factions?” – [No, my character is seeking the goals of Order as he always has and protecting Felucca from Minax, SL, etc is an important aspect of that role-play –If you want those IC details of what he is doing and why and how it relates to the mission of Order you will have to talk to Lore in game or via letter from an IC perspective]. It is simply the RL time constraints that have kept me away for the past few years and I think the rp community is producing some of the highest quality work in its history.

I will keep posting fiction leading up to my departure and throw out some rp springboard ideas to help provide ideas of how to make factions a little more rp oriented for those struggling to see it as significant for Britannian HC, BAF, etc.

-Lore's Player